5 Haziran Dünya Çevre günü vesilesiyle ağırlıklı olarak Pakistan’dan haberlerin ve analizlerin yer aldığı The Inclusive youtube kanalından Faria Khan ile Kolektifimiz üyesi Onur Yılmaz kapitalizm ve iklim krizi ilişkisi üzerine bir video söyleşi gerçekleştirdi. Söyleşinin içeriğini düzenlenmiş haliyle yayınlıyoruz.
– A short introduction your initiative. What does your initiative do?
Polen Ecology Collective was founded in 2019, just before the coronavirus pandemic, which is itself one of the major consequences of the global ecological collapse. Our collective was founded with the aim of intervening against some deficiencies in the ecology movement in Turkey and Northern Kurdistan, and against wrong understandings of struggle, like green liberal agendas. The geography of Turkey and Northern Kurdistan is one of the most intensely plundered regions in the imperialist capitalist division of labor and there is a great need for a strong ecology movement here. Although there are local ecological resistances, they are very much focused on the local level, they do not see the political dimension of the issue or they are shaped against singular projects. This prevents the ecology movement from creating its own agenda and addressing more systemic problems such as the climate crisis or antifascist, anticolonialist aspects. Therefore, our Collective argues that the problem is primarily a systemic problem, and that the most scientific and historically correct way to understand capitalism and fight against it is through a dialectical materialist, meaning a Marxist understanding of ecology. We argue that the processes of exploitation of labor and the plundering of nature are one and the same process, and we defend the ecological struggle of the working class and the oppressed against capitalism. As a collective, we not only produce theoretical work in this respect, but also develop relations with existing ecological groups in our country and try to draw them into a more united and political struggle. We produce theory in line with the needs of local ecological struggles and try to socialize ecological knowledge. We carry out regular propaganda activities to organize new people into the ecology movement. We discuss the ecology agenda with workers, women, youth and different oppressed social groups. We try to act together against the oppressive state order in Turkey and the brutal attacks of corporations. We collaborate with similar-minded ecology groups internationally.
– How has capitalization impacted the climate of the world?
Even before capitalism, both under feudalism and slavery, there were problematic aspects in the interaction of human societies with nature. At that time, however, the destructive power of the productive forces at the disposal of humans over nature was low and the impacts on nature remained localized. Capitalism first of all enabled all these local impacts to be globalized, first step by step and then in an accelerating way. The transformation of capitalism into a world system was of course uneven but unified, and different forms of oppression such as racism, colonialism, patriarchy, and later, imperialism were integrated into this capitalist order as inherent features. The amount of “free gifts” taken from nature, as Marx put it, has reached a rate that exceeds the capacity of nature to renew itself. In addition, new areas of nature and different natural entities were continuously transformed into raw materials and commodified. The atmosphere is part of this entire historical process, both affected by it and influencing the conditions of social production. With the development of the means of production in the capitalist mode, where production is carried out in order to obtain the maximum profit in the shortest time, and especially with the use of fossil fuels as the main source of energy, greenhouse gases accumulated in the atmosphere have changed the climatic conditions of the last 11 thousand years, when there were stable climatic conditions suitable for the human species. At the moment we are in, extreme weather events caused by the greenhouse effect in the atmosphere, global warming and the consequent irreversible deterioration of ecosystems such as ocean currents, glaciers and rainforests have emerged as an unprecedented crisis for humanity. The struggle for the climate today must therefore be anticapitalist and revolutionary with the knowledge of this entire historical process.
– Did industrialists know that industrialization would impact the Earth badly? And why did not the human rights courts and authorities react timely?
First of all, it should be noted that industry is not something that emerged with the Industrial Revolution. The Industrial Revolution was, of course, a leaping process in which the technological accumulation up to that point was applied to the next stage of development of capital. From the very beginning, the damage to nature and public health caused by both the use of raw materials and industrial wastes was a visible phenomenon. But of course, in the 18th and 19th centuries, the world seemed infinite in terms of the level of world population and the scale of production, and it was thought that this damage could somehow be sustained. For capital, public health was already an externality and could be compensated for by the reserve workforce. The damage to the worker’s body is essentially a projection of the damage to nature. In the second half of the 20th century there were leaps and bounds in the impact of industry on the Earth Systems and industrial capital, a section of the capitalist class, was fully aware of this destruction of nature.
Although human rights have been won through class struggles in history, they have never been implemented in the capitalist order as it is written. There have always been inequalities and the oppressed social groups have never been able to fully exercise these rights in any way. The structure called the state, with its judiciary, legislative and political executive powers, actually makes arrangements to ensure the continuity of this order. In this respect, state-affiliated human rights courts or state institutions related to human rights are only activated as a result of the pressure of social struggles. In the imperialist capitalist centers, these seem to function more often, because they are also tools for generating consent among the people. But in countries where exploitation and social contradictions are much more acute, this consent cannot be produced and state violence comes into play. Then basic human rights are largely suspended. The people who stand up against the police and the military to defend their nature are in fact defending their right to life and the right to life of living beings. But the police of the state attacks the defense of this human right, because a healthy life of the people disrupts the system in a way that reduces the profits of the capitalist class. Here the state shows its class character and serves the capitalist class. As Marxist ecologists, we therefore see industry as a historical phenomenon and oppose it not categorically but in the context of class relations and the political power relations behind it. A state under the control of the working class and the oppressed will, of course, both protect nature and public health, and transform industrial production on this basis. Thus, it will ensure that basic human rights are applicable for everyone.
– What are the crimes against the ecosystem?
Crimes against ecosystems are countless. First of all, the commodification of natural entities, making them tradable, alienates people from nature in itself. Thus, these crimes seem like normal processes to alienated people. The cutting down of trees, the destruction of the habitats of other animal species and thus their extinction, the uncontrolled release of wastes resulting from production and consumption back into nature, the effects of chemicals, microplastics, dust, radiation on living things, the transformation of geography by mining, the filling of the atmosphere with polluting gases, the depletion of the ozone layer, etc. These are all crimes that disrupt the balance of ecosystems and the cycles of matter necessary for the continuation of life. The perpetrators of these crimes are corporations and their collective political representatives, the states. Crimes against nature are of course also crimes against the people, because the human species is part of this nature.
– How should climate justice be served and by whom to whom?
Unfortunately, the concept of climate justice is in danger of turning into a concept used to justify the exploitation and plunder of nature by some politically responsible sections within capitalism. In our view, climate justice can only be achieved through the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism by the working class and the oppressed. The climate crisis affects each country differently, and in each country it affects different class strata differently. Of course, the poorest, most exploited, most backward countries and the oppressed social strata in each country are most affected by climate disasters. But we must not forget that there are also capitalist classes in poor and colonized countries and we must take into account that they also have a share in this injustice. The climate justice that any capitalist state and corporation talks about is not the same as the climate justice that peoples’ sectors are fighting for. This is why we do not find the climate justice rhetoric voiced by some heads of state at the COP climate summits credible. The struggles for climate justice developed by the people at the grassroots level and the joint movements growing with international solidarity represent real climate justice demands.
– How about proposed solutions and new strategies to reverse climate change?
Solutions such as the Green New Deal, just transition, 100% renewable energy, circular economies, techno-fixes, etc., proposed to reverse climate change, only claim to bring about a recovery by reforming capitalism. In our view, capitalism is in existential crisis, big capital is stuck and cannot produce anything but social decay and ecological collapse. There is no way that capital can be convinced of reforms when it only wants more plunder of nature. These proposed solution programs are therefore false solutions. They pretend to fix one part of the world, while continuing to make the world in general worse off. Unfortunately, no matter what we do, the effects of climate change will continue to affect human life well beyond this century. Large waves of migration and some geographies ceasing to be habitable seem inevitable. The re-stabilization of the climate and taking measures against disasters should therefore proceed in parallel. Societies have no choice but to throw off the yoke of capital in order to be ready for this great transformation. For today, individual lifestyle changes, recycling, vegan diets and other steps that are not on a social scale are completely insufficient. Important but insufficient. Larger-scale solutions such as degrowth or social municipalism-cooperatives, although more fundamental solutions, are insufficient to confront and resist the forces of capitalist power. Thus, we believe revolutionary socialist strategies are necessary to reverse climate change.